Discussion:
Comparing US to UK
(too old to reply)
Now in San Diego
2009-07-31 04:47:48 UTC
Permalink
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.

Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.

Stop signs: The US has them like a helicopter was flying over a city
and they kept slipping out. GB has them where really, really needed,
relying on give-way dotted lines.
Of course, in GB, you have to know how to drive before you get your
license.

Narrow streets: GB is full of them, like Boston in the US, as city
streets were first laid-out when horse-carts ruled the city streets.
Also, GB should get rid of the numbering where the lowest numbers were
grabbed off by the earliers buildings, be they in the middle of the
block or not.
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'

Bonus points to GB for roundabouts. I figure that they saved me 15
minutes on my 18 mile commute from Coventry (Ciundon) to Birmingham
(Ladywood.)

Turns on red lights. Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly at
a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?

ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time. Having multiple sources for Electricity,
gas, and telephone are a bonus that the US doesn't know.. (I check
poces directly only once and the East Midlands full rate was exactly
the same as PG&E at the time.

"Moon" for the blind looks much easier to learn than Braille. Maybe
it's even easier to feel, too.

The NHS. Sure it's cursed. In GB, everything the sate does is cursed.
The basic US Style NHS is limited to a few in the States. It's known
as Tricare (Retired Miltary) and Medicare (for OAPs.)
It's nice to have your GP just a short stroll away. (I'm in good
shape, which makes a stroll dandy.)
I may as well mention in low / no fares for off-hours busses.

TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.

I could mention that, in many places, you don't need screens to keep
the bugs out and the instant-hot showers.

Any other differences travellers have noted?

Fire away.
AC
2009-07-31 08:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Now in San Diego
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
Stop signs: The US has them like a helicopter was flying over a city
and they kept slipping out. GB has them where really, really needed,
relying on give-way dotted lines.
Of course, in GB, you have to know how to drive before you get your
license.
Narrow streets: GB is full of them, like Boston in the US, as city
streets were first laid-out when horse-carts ruled the city streets.
Also, GB should get rid of the numbering where the lowest numbers were
grabbed off by the earliers buildings, be they in the middle of the
block or not.
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'
Bonus points to GB for roundabouts. I figure that they saved me 15
minutes on my 18 mile commute from Coventry (Ciundon) to Birmingham
(Ladywood.)
Turns on red lights. Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly at
a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time. Having multiple sources for Electricity,
gas, and telephone are a bonus that the US doesn't know.. (I check
poces directly only once and the East Midlands full rate was exactly
the same as PG&E at the time.
"Moon" for the blind looks much easier to learn than Braille. Maybe
it's even easier to feel, too.
The NHS. Sure it's cursed. In GB, everything the sate does is cursed.
The basic US Style NHS is limited to a few in the States. It's known
as Tricare (Retired Miltary) and Medicare (for OAPs.)
It's nice to have your GP just a short stroll away. (I'm in good
shape, which makes a stroll dandy.)
I may as well mention in low / no fares for off-hours busses.
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.
I could mention that, in many places, you don't need screens to keep
the bugs out and the instant-hot showers.
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Fire away.
Does the US have Marmite?

AC
Huge
2009-07-31 08:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their "International
Foods" section.

(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
--
http://hyperangry.blogspot.com/
[email me, if you must, at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
Bod
2009-07-31 08:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their "International
Foods" section.
(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
I found it difficult to buy any of the well known English brands of
tea.The olnly one I found was just branded 'English Tea',the shelves
seemed to only stock iced tea.....yuk.

Bod
Mortimer
2009-07-31 08:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
Post by Huge
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their
"International
Foods" section.
(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
I found it difficult to buy any of the well known English brands of
tea.The olnly one I found was just branded 'English Tea',the shelves
seemed to only stock iced tea.....yuk.
When I went to Boston to see my sister who lived there at the time, I found
that US versions of confectionary that was sold over here (maybe Mars Bars
or something like that) were a lot more sweet and sickly. My girlfriend
noticed the same thing about sweets in Australia when she was there on
holiday.

I'd naively thought that a Mars Bar was the same the world over, but it
looks as if locally-produced versions are different to each other.


One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty buying
an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in a
dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric hob.
Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being able to
supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains voltage of
110 V. Apparently houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for lighting and
sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like cookers and
boilers.
JNugent
2009-07-31 09:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Bod
Post by Huge
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their "International
Foods" section.
(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
I found it difficult to buy any of the well known English brands of
tea.The olnly one I found was just branded 'English Tea',the shelves
seemed to only stock iced tea.....yuk.
When I went to Boston to see my sister who lived there at the time, I
found that US versions of confectionary that was sold over here (maybe
Mars Bars or something like that) were a lot more sweet and sickly. My
girlfriend noticed the same thing about sweets in Australia when she was
there on holiday.
I'd naively thought that a Mars Bar was the same the world over, but it
looks as if locally-produced versions are different to each other.
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in
a dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric
hob. Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being
able to supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains
voltage of 110 V. Apparently houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for
lighting and sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like
cookers and boilers.
Same in Italy.

A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
Huge
2009-07-31 09:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle.
Yep. They are available, but very hard to find.
--
http://hyperangry.blogspot.com/
[email me, if you must, at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
Bod
2009-07-31 09:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by Mortimer
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle.
Yep. They are available, but very hard to find.
I suspect that they would be rated at 1.5kw? (pure guess).

Bod
Mortimer
2009-07-31 09:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Mortimer
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in
a dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric
hob. Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being
able to supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains
voltage of 110 V. Apparently US houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for
lighting and sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like
cookers and boilers.
Same in Italy.
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought
two to take home.
Now you can't blame the lower voltage for kettles being scarce in Italy.
Maybe it's due to differences in what people drink: you can make coffee in a
percolator that heats the water as it drips it onto the coffee grounds but I
don't think you can make tea (probably more common in the UK than other
countries) that way.

The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Ivan
2009-07-31 13:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
b***@yahoo.co.uk
2009-07-31 14:05:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:48:35 +0100
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
Unless you cook with pyrex or ceramic pots in which case you'll be waiting
a looooong time for your food to heat up.

B2003
Mortimer
2009-07-31 14:09:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:48:35 +0100
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
Unless you cook with pyrex or ceramic pots in which case you'll be waiting
a looooong time for your food to heat up.
LOL
Ivan
2009-07-31 14:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:48:35 +0100
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
Unless you cook with pyrex or ceramic pots in which case you'll be waiting
a looooong time for your food to heat up.
I assumed that went without saying, I appreciate that one will have to
re-equip themselves with quite expensive utensils (I've just treated myself
to a stainless steel pressure cooker @ £65.00!) but all the rest of the
stuff I've acquired for nothing via the family, when they ask me what I want
for a Christmas or birthday present:o) I'd honestly have to rate it as being
one of the better buys I've ever made.
Mike Henry
2009-07-31 15:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
Er, it was during a power cut...
Martin
2009-07-31 15:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Henry
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
Er, it was during a power cut...
Wind up induction LOL
--
Martin
Ivan
2009-07-31 18:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Henry
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Try using an induction hob, amazingly fast and very economical.
Er, it was during a power cut...
True, but I was treating that as an aside and replying to his comments on
just how loooooong it takes to heat a pan of water on a gas cooker, it's
surprising the number of people I know who have never even heard of an
induction hob and are absolutely amazed when I show them just how quickly it
takes to boil half a liter of of water in a pan from a standing start, in
fact even I didn't realise just how efficient they are, although admittedly
one does have to take into consideration the expense of the dedicated
cookware and the initial cost.. "A typical induction cooktop is 84 percent
efficient, while a gas range is only 40 percent efficient, according to the
U.S. Department of Energy."
Mortimer
2009-07-31 18:31:22 UTC
Permalink
It's surprising the number of people I know who have never even heard of
an induction hob and are absolutely amazed when I show them just how
quickly it takes to boil half a liter of of water in a pan from a standing
start, in fact even I didn't realise just how efficient they are, although
admittedly one does have to take into consideration the expense of the
dedicated cookware and the initial cost.. "A typical induction cooktop is
84 percent efficient, while a gas range is only 40 percent efficient,
according to the U.S. Department of Energy."
I'm always surprised at how quickly a gas combi-boiler can heat running
water flowing at a rate of about 1 litre every 10 seconds to about 60
degrees C, when it takes so long for a gas hob to heat a pan of about 500 ml
of water. Boilers must burn serious amounts of gas!

How long does it take to boil water on an induction hob compared with in a
kettle? I presume one of the things you must never do with an induction hob
is to put an empty pan on it, if it gets hot enough to heat water so
quickly. Does the magnetic field cause any problems with other things nearby
such as your wristwatch when you are holding the pan? Why do you need
special cookware: can't you use *any* metal vessel such as an aluminium or
steel pan, or a cast iron casserole dish?
Ivan
2009-07-31 18:49:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
It's surprising the number of people I know who have never even heard of
an induction hob and are absolutely amazed when I show them just how
quickly it takes to boil half a liter of of water in a pan from a
standing start, in fact even I didn't realise just how efficient they
are, although admittedly one does have to take into consideration the
expense of the dedicated cookware and the initial cost.. "A typical
induction cooktop is 84 percent efficient, while a gas range is only 40
percent efficient, according to the U.S. Department of Energy."
I'm always surprised at how quickly a gas combi-boiler can heat running
water flowing at a rate of about 1 litre every 10 seconds to about 60
degrees C, when it takes so long for a gas hob to heat a pan of about 500
ml of water. Boilers must burn serious amounts of gas!
How long does it take to boil water on an induction hob compared with in a
kettle? I presume one of the things you must never do with an induction
hob is to put an empty pan on it, if it gets hot enough to heat water so
quickly. Does the magnetic field cause any problems with other things
nearby such as your wristwatch when you are holding the pan? Why do you
need special cookware: can't you use *any* metal vessel such as an
aluminium or steel pan, or a cast iron casserole dish?
Rule of thumb is if it's magnetic then it will work on an induction hob,
stainless steel vessels (which I use) have special bases and appear to work
as efficiently as steel ones, I've never known it cause any problems with
small metal objects, although I believe that they do contain quite
sophisticated electronics which can detect the size of objects, it will
automatically shut down after 5 seconds if the pan has been removed.. I've
just timed it and it takes under 2.5 minutes to boil half a litre of water..
It's maximum rating is 2.2 KW.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 20:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
How long does it take to boil water on an induction hob compared with in
a kettle? I presume one of the things you must never do with an induction
hob is to put an empty pan on it, if it gets hot enough to heat water so
quickly. Does the magnetic field cause any problems with other things
nearby such as your wristwatch when you are holding the pan? Why do you
need special cookware: can't you use *any* metal vessel such as an
aluminium or steel pan, or a cast iron casserole dish?
Rule of thumb is if it's magnetic then it will work on an induction hob,
stainless steel vessels (which I use) have special bases and appear to
work as efficiently as steel ones
I think you can use any metal, not just a magnetic one like iron/steel. You
get eddy currents induced in any metal: old-style car speedometers used the
effect and they had an aluminium cup surrounding the rotating magnet. And
wires in transformers and motors are not always steel.
Post by Ivan
I've never known it cause any problems with small metal objects, although
I believe that they do contain quite sophisticated electronics which can
detect the size of objects, it will automatically shut down after 5
seconds if the pan has been removed.. I've just timed it and it takes
under 2.5 minutes to boil half a litre of water.. It's maximum rating is
2.2 KW.
In case anyone was wondering, I've just boiled half a litre of water in my
kettle (2.5 kW) and it took 1 min 5 seconds until the noise of the water
changed as boiling began and a further 10 seconds (total 75 seconds) before
the cutout switched it off. So it's still faster than an induction hob, and
a lot faster than a gas hob. OK, I suppose you want me to time that now,
don't you? About 6 min 30 seconds. Pathetic!

That's starting with water from the cold tap at about 10 degrees C.

Wow, I've just calculated how long it would take for 100% efficiency -
specific heat of water is 4.1 J/(cm3.K) so you need 4.1*500*(100-10) = 188
kJ. And for a 2.5 kW kettle (electical input power) that would take 188/2.5
= 75 seconds. So my kettle is 100% efficent. Do I believe that? Seems a bit
improbable!
Ivan
2009-07-31 20:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
How long does it take to boil water on an induction hob compared with in
a kettle?
Rule of thumb is if it's magnetic then it will work on an induction hob,
stainless steel vessels (which I use) have special bases and appear to
work as efficiently as steel ones
I think you can use any metal, not just a magnetic one like iron/steel.
|
IIUI they're still working on a cooker that will work efficiently using that
principle.
|
Post by Mortimer
In case anyone was wondering, I've just boiled half a litre of water in my
kettle (2.5 kW) and it took 1 min 5 seconds until the noise of the water
changed as boiling began and a further 10 seconds (total 75 seconds)
before the cutout switched it off. So it's still faster than an induction
hob, and a lot faster than a gas hob. OK, I suppose you want me to time
that now, don't you? About 6 min 30 seconds. Pathetic!
That's starting with water from the cold tap at about 10 degrees C.
|
I've just carried out another test and boiled a half litre of cold tap
water in my Prima 3kW rapid boil kettle which took approximately 1 minute 5
seconds to switch off, a half litre of cold tap water boiled from scratch on
the 2.2kw induction hob using a small all 'steel' none-stick coated pan took
1 minute 40 seconds, which considering the 800W difference I thought was
pretty good.
Bod
2009-07-31 20:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
How long does it take to boil water on an induction hob compared
with in a kettle?
Rule of thumb is if it's magnetic then it will work on an induction
hob, stainless steel vessels (which I use) have special bases and
appear to work as efficiently as steel ones
I think you can use any metal, not just a magnetic one like
|
IIUI they're still working on a cooker that will work efficiently using
that principle.
|
Post by Mortimer
In case anyone was wondering, I've just boiled half a litre of water
in my kettle (2.5 kW) and it took 1 min 5 seconds until the noise of
the water changed as boiling began and a further 10 seconds (total 75
seconds) before the cutout switched it off. So it's still faster than
an induction hob, and a lot faster than a gas hob. OK, I suppose you
want me to time that now, don't you? About 6 min 30 seconds. Pathetic!
That's starting with water from the cold tap at about 10 degrees C.
|
I've just carried out another test and boiled a half litre of cold tap
water in my Prima 3kW rapid boil kettle which took approximately 1
minute 5 seconds to switch off, a half litre of cold tap water boiled
from scratch on the 2.2kw induction hob using a small all 'steel'
none-stick coated pan took 1 minute 40 seconds, which considering the
800W difference I thought was pretty good.
Can we be sure that those tests were carried out in laboratory conditions?

Bod
Ivan
2009-07-31 20:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
How long does it take to boil water on an induction hob compared with
in a kettle?
Rule of thumb is if it's magnetic then it will work on an induction
hob, stainless steel vessels (which I use) have special bases and
appear to work as efficiently as steel ones
I think you can use any metal, not just a magnetic one like iron/steel.
|
IIUI they're still working on a cooker that will work efficiently using
that principle.
|
Post by Mortimer
In case anyone was wondering, I've just boiled half a litre of water in
my kettle (2.5 kW) and it took 1 min 5 seconds until the noise of the
water changed as boiling began and a further 10 seconds (total 75
seconds) before the cutout switched it off. So it's still faster than an
induction hob, and a lot faster than a gas hob. OK, I suppose you want
me to time that now, don't you? About 6 min 30 seconds. Pathetic!
That's starting with water from the cold tap at about 10 degrees C.
|
I've just carried out another test and boiled a half litre of cold tap
water in my Prima 3kW rapid boil kettle which took approximately 1 minute
5 seconds to switch off, a half litre of cold tap water boiled from
scratch on the 2.2kw induction hob using a small all 'steel' none-stick
coated pan took 1 minute 40 seconds, which considering the 800W
difference I thought was pretty good.
Can we be sure that those tests were carried out in laboratory conditions?
Laboratory conditions with temperature control fine enough to brew 5 gallons
of best bitter, what more can anyone ask:)

Mortimer
2009-07-31 09:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Mortimer
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in
a dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric
hob. Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being
able to supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains
voltage of 110 V. Apparently US houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for
lighting and sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like
cookers and boilers.
Same in Italy.
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought
two to take home.
Now you can't blame the lower voltage for kettles being scarce in Italy.
Maybe it's due to differences in what people drink: you can make coffee in a
percolator that heats the water as it drips it onto the coffee grounds but I
don't think you can make tea (probably more common in the UK than other
countries) that way.

The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.


Then you've got the US obsession with measuring cooking ingredients by
volume ("cups") rather than by weight. OK for liquids but how do you measure
a cup of butter or margarine? ;-) Even powders, granules and solids (eg
flour, sugar and raisins) will be very variable depending on how densely it
happens to pack as you are pouring it into the cup. And how do you measure
reasonably accurately a fraction of a cup?
McKevvy
2009-07-31 14:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by JNugent
Post by Mortimer
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in
a dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric
hob. Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being
able to supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains
voltage of 110 V. Apparently US houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for
lighting and sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like
cookers and boilers.
Same in Italy.
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought
two to take home.
Now you can't blame the lower voltage for kettles being scarce in Italy.
Maybe it's due to differences in what people drink: you can make coffee in a
percolator that heats the water as it drips it onto the coffee grounds but I
don't think you can make tea (probably more common in the UK than other
countries) that way.
The thought of having to heat water in a pan rather than a kettle sounds a
right pain. It takes so loooooong. I know from when I made a cup of coffee
that way on my gas stove during a power cut.
Then you've got the US obsession with measuring cooking ingredients by
volume ("cups") rather than by weight. OK for liquids but how do you measure
a cup of butter or margarine? ;-)  Even powders, granules and solids (eg
flour, sugar and raisins) will be very variable depending on how densely it
happens to pack as you are pouring it into the cup. And how do you measure
reasonably accurately a fraction of a cup?
Solids are measured by weight.
A cup is approx 225ml.
unknown
2009-07-31 11:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Same in Italy.
It's possible to buy kettles in Ikea in Italy.
Post by JNugent
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's that?"
her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have one." Oddly
enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle, there's a word
for it (bolletore) in the language.

Electric kettles are largely pointless in rural areas of Italy. The
electricity supply to a rural house is usualy 3KVA, switching on an
electric kettle would plunge the house into darkness.
Basil Jet
2009-07-31 12:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's
that?" her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have
one." Oddly enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle,
there's a word for it (bolletore) in the language.
We have a word for zebra in our language, even though very few of us have
one.
Bod
2009-07-31 12:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by JNugent
Same in Italy.
It's possible to buy kettles in Ikea in Italy.
Post by JNugent
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's that?"
her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have one." Oddly
enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle, there's a word
for it (bolletore) in the language.
Electric kettles are largely pointless in rural areas of Italy. The
electricity supply to a rural house is usualy 3KVA, switching on an
electric kettle would plunge the house into darkness.
Not if they were to use the 1.5KW models(they are available).

Bod
pete
2009-07-31 13:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by JNugent
Same in Italy.
It's possible to buy kettles in Ikea in Italy.
Post by JNugent
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's that?"
her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have one." Oddly
enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle, there's a word
for it (bolletore) in the language.
Electric kettles are largely pointless in rural areas of Italy. The
electricity supply to a rural house is usualy 3KVA, switching on an
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Post by unknown
electric kettle would plunge the house into darkness.
Gotta correct that. We've got a place in rural Spain. Our supply is limited
to 15 Amps (i.e. 3kW) The electric kettle we bought at carrefour (they have
a wide range) works fine. And it's a 2kW jobbie. Obviously you have to be
careful about what else is on: toaster, immersion heater and whatnot but
they *do* have a point and are widely used.
Martin
2009-07-31 13:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by unknown
Post by JNugent
Same in Italy.
It's possible to buy kettles in Ikea in Italy.
Post by JNugent
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's that?"
her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have one." Oddly
enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle, there's a word
for it (bolletore) in the language.
Electric kettles are largely pointless in rural areas of Italy. The
electricity supply to a rural house is usualy 3KVA, switching on an
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Post by unknown
electric kettle would plunge the house into darkness.
Gotta correct that. We've got a place in rural Spain. Our supply is limited
to 15 Amps (i.e. 3kW) The electric kettle we bought at carrefour (they have
a wide range) works fine. And it's a 2kW jobbie. Obviously you have to be
careful about what else is on: toaster, immersion heater and whatnot but
they *do* have a point and are widely used.
There are similar problems in NL. We had to pay to have three phase installed in
order to run a bog standard electric oven in the kitchen.
--
Martin
Mortimer
2009-07-31 14:06:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by unknown
Post by JNugent
Same in Italy.
It's possible to buy kettles in Ikea in Italy.
Post by JNugent
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's that?"
her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have one." Oddly
enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle, there's a word
for it (bolletore) in the language.
Electric kettles are largely pointless in rural areas of Italy. The
electricity supply to a rural house is usualy 3KVA, switching on an
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Post by unknown
electric kettle would plunge the house into darkness.
Gotta correct that. We've got a place in rural Spain. Our supply is limited
to 15 Amps (i.e. 3kW) The electric kettle we bought at carrefour (they have
a wide range) works fine. And it's a 2kW jobbie. Obviously you have to be
careful about what else is on: toaster, immersion heater and whatnot but
they *do* have a point and are widely used.
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater and
the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?

I hadn't realised that some places in Europe had such severe restrictions on
available power. We're pampered with a 60 A (14 kW) domestic supply here in
the UK.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 14:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that some places in Europe had such severe restrictions
on available power. We're pampered with a 60 A (14 kW) domestic supply
here in the UK.
Actually I've just checked my own "fuse box" and the master circuit breaker
is 100 A so 24 kW. I'm not sure what the rating of the electricity board
fuse is beside the meter because the label has partly worn off, though there
is a big "1" which could be the start of "100 A".

In my innocence I thought that all countries with 220 or 240 V mains could
supply 60 A. Evidently not.
unknown
2009-07-31 14:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
In my innocence I thought that all countries with 220 or 240 V mains could
supply 60 A. Evidently not.
To have a 60A supply in Italy would incur a standing charge of £400 and
a price per unit of about £0.25. You really, really have to have a need
for a supply of 60A to want to pay that much. Mostly it's farmers and
small businesses that specify a 60A supply, not domestic customers. Most
have a 25A supply, rural users take a 15A supply.
Clive George
2009-07-31 14:31:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater and
the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there are
so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best choice.

We don't have mains gas. The previous occupants put in an expensive yet crap
electric cooker. We dumped that, and got a gas hob running off a pair of
13kg propane cylinders. They last for many months, and there's an automatic
changeover, so there's no hassle at all.

(still got electric oven, but that's just habit)

Electric heating OTOH is just barking. Wood is pretty common.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 14:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater
and the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there are
so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best choice.
No I've never been to France. I hadn't realised that rural France used
bottled gas for *cooking*. My parents have a house in the Yorkshire Dales
which has no mains gas (despite a huge long-distance gas main running up the
road about 1/4 mile away [1]) so they use bottled gas for the central
heating and hot water [2] but electricity for cooking and shower. They also
burn wood or coal in the stove as a supplement to the central heating.

How does the cost of bottled gas compare with oil for central heating when
there's no mains gas? I thought bottled gas was second only to electricity
as the most expensive way to heat.

So the house may be out in the sticks but it still has a 60 A (14 kW)
electricity supply. The thought of having to decide which appliances can be
turned on the same time is not one I've ever encountered personally - shows
that we don't know we're born in the UK! Is there anywhere in the UK on
mains electricty which is restricted to a 3 kW supply?


[1] When the gas board were installing the gas main, people in the village
asked how much it would be to have a spur of a few hundred yards and were
quoted a ridiculous amount - I think it would have worked out about 20 grand
per house. They asked for a breakdown of the costs and found that a
significant amount was for the digging of the trench. The local farmer
offered to dig the trench for free with his JCB, leaving just the skilled
laying and connection of the pipes to the gas board, but even this was
rejected as being not allowed. In contrast, the houses/farms on the road
where the gas main was being laid got their gas installed for a nominal fee.

[2] They are now regretting that they had a gas boiler rather than an oil
tank/boiler installed, because it costs a lot to run the central heating -
cold badly-insulated stone cottage that is only lived in part-time. At least
when they had an extension built, they had double glazing and a proper
breezeblock cavity wall inside the stone exterior for that bit.
pete
2009-07-31 15:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater
and the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there are
so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best choice.
No I've never been to France. I hadn't realised that rural France used
bottled gas for *cooking*. My parents have a house in the Yorkshire Dales
which has no mains gas (despite a huge long-distance gas main running up the
road about 1/4 mile away [1]) so they use bottled gas for the central
heating and hot water [2] but electricity for cooking and shower. They also
burn wood or coal in the stove as a supplement to the central heating.
How does the cost of bottled gas compare with oil for central heating when
there's no mains gas? I thought bottled gas was second only to electricity
as the most expensive way to heat.
About 12 euros (the price varies frequently). 1 bottle powers a 3kW heater
for about 60 hours straight. so about 180 kW*Hr, or 6.5 cents / kW*Hr. That's
about half the cost of electricity.
Post by Mortimer
So the house may be out in the sticks but it still has a 60 A (14 kW)
electricity supply. The thought of having to decide which appliances can be
turned on the same time is not one I've ever encountered personally - shows
that we don't know we're born in the UK! Is there anywhere in the UK on
mains electricty which is restricted to a 3 kW supply?
Not yet - but just wait until all the nuclear power stations get decommissioned
and all the NIMBYs have decided they don't like new gas-fired, or wind powered
generation spoiling their view. Then 3kW will seem like a luxury :-(
Clive George
2009-07-31 15:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater
and the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there
are so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best
choice.
No I've never been to France.
Boggle.
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that rural France used bottled gas for *cooking*.
But cooking is what it's really good for.
Post by Mortimer
My parents have a house in the Yorkshire Dales which has no mains gas
(despite a huge long-distance gas main running up the road about 1/4 mile
away [1]) so they use bottled gas for the central heating and hot water
[2] but electricity for cooking and shower. They also burn wood or coal in
the stove as a supplement to the central heating.
I bet we've got a bigger gas main than your parent's one running 1/4 mile
away :-) We're also in the dales, but full-time.

I wouldn't use bottled for C/H - either one of those big propane tanks, or
more likely oil, if we weren't using solid fuel for it. But for cooking I
hate electric hobs, and gas turned out to be really no hassle at all.

The bottles which are for sale at petrol stations in France are probably for
cooking, not heating - the latter takes rather more.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 15:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater
and the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there
are so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best
choice.
No I've never been to France.
Boggle.
I've been to Germany and Ireland on business a couple of times and to
Austria and Malta on family holidays, but I'm basically a home-loving
creature!
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that rural France used bottled gas for *cooking*.
But cooking is what it's really good for.
Yes, I'm not sure why my parents chose to use gas for heating but not for
cooking. When the old boiler needed replacement, I tried to urge them to go
for oil instead, but the only place with access for the supply pipe from the
tanker would have been under a bedroom window and so the smell of the oil
would have been a problem. Or maybe they were worried about the noise that
an oil boiler makes if it's in the house rather than outside in an outhouse.
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
My parents have a house in the Yorkshire Dales which has no mains gas
(despite a huge long-distance gas main running up the road about 1/4 mile
away [1]) so they use bottled gas for the central heating and hot water
[2] but electricity for cooking and shower. They also burn wood or coal
in the stove as a supplement to the central heating.
I bet we've got a bigger gas main than your parent's one running 1/4 mile
away :-) We're also in the dales, but full-time.
"My gas main is bigger than yours"! LOL. I'm not sure what the diameter of
this main is, but I know it was installed to convey gas between Wensleydale
and Swaledale (and maybe further afield) and that taps off it to properties
and communities along the way were not welcomed by the gas board (back in
the days before privatisation) especially if they involved any laying of
pipes.
Post by Clive George
I wouldn't use bottled for C/H - either one of those big propane tanks, or
more likely oil, if we weren't using solid fuel for it. But for cooking I
hate electric hobs, and gas turned out to be really no hassle at all.
The bottles which are for sale at petrol stations in France are probably
for cooking, not heating - the latter takes rather more.
My parents' heating, with their old boiler which was recently replaced with
a new more efficient one when the old one broke, went through a pair of 70
kg propane cylinders in about one to two weeks.

I think there may have been problems with where a propane or oil tank could
be sited so as to comply with regulations and yet not be an eyesore.
Clive George
2009-07-31 16:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater
and the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there
are so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best
choice.
No I've never been to France.
Boggle.
I've been to Germany and Ireland on business a couple of times and to
Austria and Malta on family holidays, but I'm basically a home-loving
creature!
I like France.
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
My parents have a house in the Yorkshire Dales which has no mains gas
(despite a huge long-distance gas main running up the road about 1/4
mile away [1]) so they use bottled gas for the central heating and hot
water [2] but electricity for cooking and shower. They also burn wood or
coal in the stove as a supplement to the central heating.
I bet we've got a bigger gas main than your parent's one running 1/4 mile
away :-) We're also in the dales, but full-time.
"My gas main is bigger than yours"! LOL. I'm not sure what the diameter of
this main is, but I know it was installed to convey gas between
Wensleydale and Swaledale (and maybe further afield) and that taps off it
to properties and communities along the way were not welcomed by the gas
board (back in the days before privatisation) especially if they involved
any laying of pipes.
The one out here is a couple of years old, and is part of the new national
grid. It's too big to lay along the road - they'd have had to dig up the
entire thing, rather than a little trench. Think "Diamonds are forever" and
you're pretty close. And there's no way they'd tap it for local stuff :-)
Martin
2009-07-31 15:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
Post by Clive George
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater
and the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
Ever seen French supermarkets/petrol stations? Ever wondered why there
are so many gas bottles for sale? For a rural house, it's the best
choice.
No I've never been to France.
Boggle.
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that rural France used bottled gas for *cooking*.
But cooking is what it's really good for.
Post by Mortimer
My parents have a house in the Yorkshire Dales which has no mains gas
(despite a huge long-distance gas main running up the road about 1/4 mile
away [1]) so they use bottled gas for the central heating and hot water
[2] but electricity for cooking and shower. They also burn wood or coal in
the stove as a supplement to the central heating.
I bet we've got a bigger gas main than your parent's one running 1/4 mile
away :-) We're also in the dales, but full-time.
I wouldn't use bottled for C/H - either one of those big propane tanks, or
more likely oil, if we weren't using solid fuel for it. But for cooking I
hate electric hobs, and gas turned out to be really no hassle at all.
The bottles which are for sale at petrol stations in France are probably for
cooking, not heating - the latter takes rather more.
Bottled butane gas is expensive in UK compared to elsewhere.
--
Martin
Mortimer
2009-07-31 15:46:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin
Bottled butane gas is expensive in UK compared to elsewhere.
Is it? I thought bottled propane and butane were expensive everywhere.

Rip-Off Britain strikes again :-(

I foresee a trade in smuggling bottled gas from France ;-)
Martin
2009-07-31 16:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Martin
Bottled butane gas is expensive in UK compared to elsewhere.
Is it? I thought bottled propane and butane were expensive everywhere.
Rip-Off Britain strikes again :-(
I foresee a trade in smuggling bottled gas from France ;-)
or sending it via pipe line for a French company to sell? :o)
--
Martin
Harry Bloomfield
2009-07-31 17:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
So the house may be out in the sticks but it still has a 60 A (14 kW)
electricity supply. The thought of having to decide which appliances can be
turned on the same time is not one I've ever encountered personally - shows
that we don't know we're born in the UK! Is there anywhere in the UK on mains
electricty which is restricted to a 3 kW supply?
Well not quite the same thing, but touring caravan pitches usually are
limited to 15amp, or 10amp and sometimes just 5amp supplies on the
older sites.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
unknown
2009-07-31 18:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
No I've never been to France. I hadn't realised that rural France used
bottled gas for *cooking*.
Out here in rural England we use bottled gas for *cooking*. We also use
it for cooking.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 18:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Mortimer
No I've never been to France. I hadn't realised that rural France used
bottled gas for *cooking*.
Out here in rural England we use bottled gas for *cooking*. We also use
it for cooking.
I was making the point that while I'd heard of gas being used for central
heating, I hadn't realised that anyone other than campers and caravaners
used it for cooking. But I suppose it's easy enough to get the burners
modified to use propane rather than methane (natural gas).
unknown
2009-07-31 14:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater and
the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
In short, yes. Almost everyone I know has a gas oven and hob powered by
propane cylinders. Log fired ovens are still popular, ranging from the
Aga (almost unknow)/Stanley (reasonably common) to the more usual
"Little Queen of the Kitchen" models which look like a lightweight
Rayburn without the hob covers.

I keep nagging erindoors to understand that when her kitchen is
remodelled she must have gas or gas + solid fuel ovens but it's not
makign much of an impression.
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that some places in Europe had such severe restrictions on
available power. We're pampered with a 60 A (14 kW) domestic supply here in
the UK.
60A is simply not available where we are in Italy. The best that can be
had is 30A and that's an amusing price - high standing charge and the
electricity costs more per unit.
pete
2009-07-31 14:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by pete
Post by unknown
Post by JNugent
Same in Italy.
It's possible to buy kettles in Ikea in Italy.
Post by JNugent
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.
One of our Italian friends pointed at the kettle and said "what's that?"
her sister whispered "it's a kettle, all English people have one." Oddly
enough, although very few people in Italy have a kettle, there's a word
for it (bolletore) in the language.
Electric kettles are largely pointless in rural areas of Italy. The
electricity supply to a rural house is usualy 3KVA, switching on an
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Post by unknown
electric kettle would plunge the house into darkness.
Gotta correct that. We've got a place in rural Spain. Our supply is limited
to 15 Amps (i.e. 3kW) The electric kettle we bought at carrefour (they have
a wide range) works fine. And it's a 2kW jobbie. Obviously you have to be
careful about what else is on: toaster, immersion heater and whatnot but
they *do* have a point and are widely used.
What about cooking? Is the use of gas, oil and solid fuel much greater and
the use of electric hobs/ovens much less than in the UK?
13.5 kg gas (butano / butane) bottles that go inside the cooker. There's no
mains gas. When the bottle runs out, the gas goes off and you have to replace
it. Then take the empty bottle down to the depot and exchange it for a full
one. Though to put it in perspective a bottle lasts many months in the cooker.
In some places the Repsol wagon comes round on a weekly basis. Most houses
have many gas bottles, powering cooker, heaters and water heaters.
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that some places in Europe had such severe restrictions on
available power. We're pampered with a 60 A (14 kW) domestic supply here in
the UK.
Yup. And when the kettle *does* go on, the supply drops to 185V so it's not
really a 2kW kettle, in practice.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 15:03:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that some places in Europe had such severe restrictions on
available power. We're pampered with a 60 A (14 kW) domestic supply here in
the UK.
Yup. And when the kettle *does* go on, the supply drops to 185V so it's not
really a 2kW kettle, in practice.
Wow. I would have expected that in third-world countries, not in the western
world.
Harry Bloomfield
2009-07-31 17:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
I hadn't realised that some places in Europe had such severe restrictions on
available power. We're pampered with a 60 A (14 kW) domestic supply here in
the UK.
Only 60amp, how do you manage with such a meager supply?

Ours is 100amp.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
unknown
2009-07-31 14:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Gotta correct that.
You mean you have to disagree with it, it wasn't incorrect.
Post by pete
We've got a place in rural Spain. Our supply is limited to 15 Amps (i.e.
3kW) The electric kettle we bought at carrefour (they have a wide range)
works fine. And it's a 2kW jobbie. Obviously you have to be careful about
what else is on: toaster, immersion heater and whatnot but they *do* have
a point and are widely used.
Yes, if you buy a piffly little kettle and switch off everything else
you can get away with it. Mostly.

The real solution is to buy a kettle for use on a gas hob.
SeaWoe
2009-07-31 19:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Mortimer
Post by Bod
Post by Huge
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their "International
Foods" section.
(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
I found it difficult to buy any of the well known English brands of
tea.The olnly one I found was just branded 'English Tea',the shelves
seemed to only stock iced tea.....yuk.
When I went to Boston to see my sister who lived there at the time, I
found that US versions of confectionary that was sold over here (maybe
Mars Bars or something like that) were a lot more sweet and sickly. My
girlfriend noticed the same thing about sweets in Australia when she was
there on holiday.
I'd naively thought that a Mars Bar was the same the world over, but it
looks as if locally-produced versions are different to each other.
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty
buying an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in
a dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric
hob. Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being
able to supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains
voltage of 110 V. Apparently houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for
lighting and sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like
cookers and boilers.
Same in Italy.
A visiting Italian friend was bowled over by electric kettles and bought two
to take home.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I got a Haddan (UK made!) on a return visit at some time. Seldom used,
as microwace so easy.
Brian Mc
2009-07-31 09:18:28 UTC
Permalink
In uk.media.tv.misc Mortimer <***@privacy.net> wrote:
: Apparently houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for lighting and
: sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like cookers and
: boilers.

Rather than two feeds at different voltages it is, I believe, MUCH more
common for domestic homes to be supplied with 2-phases of the 110V suply.
220V is then just the cross-phase voltage. Ex-british friends have even
wired up a few 13A UK sockets using this!
Mortimer
2009-07-31 09:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Mc
: Apparently houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for lighting and
: sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like cookers and
: boilers.
Rather than two feeds at different voltages it is, I believe, MUCH more
common for domestic homes to be supplied with 2-phases of the 110V suply.
220V is then just the cross-phase voltage. Ex-british friends have even
wired up a few 13A UK sockets using this!
Yes. I didn't say "two phases" because I thought that might be too
technical, but I imagine that's how it's done.
PCPaul
2009-07-31 16:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for lighting and : sockets and 220 V
for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like cookers and : boilers.
Rather than two feeds at different voltages it is, I believe, MUCH more
common for domestic homes to be supplied with 2-phases of the 110V
suply. 220V is then just the cross-phase voltage. Ex-british friends
have even wired up a few 13A UK sockets using this!
Yes. I didn't say "two phases" because I thought that might be too
technical, but I imagine that's how it's done.
Actually, the 220V transformer on every pole(!) is centre tapped to give
a centre 'neutral' and 110V from either end. To get 220V for heavy duty
stuff you take the feed from both ends and ignore the middle. It's all on
one phase.
McKevvy
2009-07-31 14:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Bod
Post by Huge
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their "International
Foods" section.
(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
I found it difficult to buy any of the well known English brands of
tea.The olnly one I found was just branded 'English Tea',the shelves
seemed to only stock iced tea.....yuk.
When I went to Boston to see my sister who lived there at the time, I found
that US versions of confectionary that was sold over here (maybe Mars Bars
or something like that) were a lot more sweet and sickly. My girlfriend
noticed the same thing about sweets in Australia when she was there on
holiday.
I'd naively thought that a Mars Bar was the same the world over, but it
looks as if locally-produced versions are different to each other.
One other observation: my sister said that she had great difficulty buying
an electric kettle. It seems that Americans either make coffee in a
dedicated coffee maker or heat up water in a pan on a gas or electric hob.
Maybe it's something to do with ordinary mains sockets not being able to
supply the 2-3 kW that a kettle needs, given their lower mains voltage of
110 V. Apparently houses have two mains feeds: 110 V for lighting and
sockets and 220 V for heavy-duty hard-wired appliances like cookers and
boilers.
Yup, most yanks n rednecks boil water by gas. Odd.

McK.
McKevvy
2009-07-31 14:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
Post by Huge
Post by AC
Does the US have Marmite?
Many supermarkets (especially upmarket ones) have it in their "International
Foods" section.
(My parent(s) live in the USA and have done for 30 years. I go there a lot. I'm
still finding differences.)
I found it difficult to buy any of the well known English brands of
tea.The olnly one I found was just branded 'English Tea',the shelves
seemed to only stock iced tea.....yuk.
Bod
Thats cos they chucked it all into the sea at Boston harbour (or is
that harbor)?

McK.
SeaWoe
2009-07-31 19:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
Post by Now in San Diego
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
Stop signs: The US has them like a helicopter was flying over a city
and they kept slipping out. GB has them where really, really needed,
relying on give-way dotted lines.
Of course, in  GB, you have to know how to drive before you get your
license.
Narrow streets: GB is full of them, like Boston in the US, as city
streets were first laid-out when horse-carts ruled the city streets.
Also, GB should get rid of the numbering where the lowest numbers were
grabbed off by the earliers buildings, be they in the middle of the
block or not.
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'
Bonus points to GB for roundabouts. I figure that they saved me 15
minutes on my 18 mile commute from Coventry (Ciundon) to Birmingham
(Ladywood.)
Turns on red lights.  Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly at
a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time. Having multiple sources for Electricity,
gas, and telephone are a bonus  that the US doesn't know.. (I check
poces directly only once and the East Midlands full rate was exactly
the same as PG&E at the time.
"Moon" for the blind looks much easier to learn than Braille. Maybe
it's even easier to feel, too.
The NHS. Sure it's cursed. In GB, everything the sate does is cursed.
The basic US Style NHS is limited to a few in the States. It's known
as Tricare (Retired Miltary) and Medicare (for OAPs.)
It's nice to have your GP just a short stroll away. (I'm in good
shape, which makes a stroll dandy.)
I may as well mention in low / no fares for off-hours busses.
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording  where and when for both Telly and wireless.
I could mention that, in many places, you don't need screens to keep
the bugs out and the instant-hot showers.
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Fire  away.
Does the US have Marmite?
AC- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It's available, with a different name, a couple of miles away. at "The
British Food Store."
AC
2009-07-31 09:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Now in San Diego
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
Stop signs: The US has them like a helicopter was flying over a city
and they kept slipping out. GB has them where really, really needed,
relying on give-way dotted lines.
Of course, in GB, you have to know how to drive before you get your
license.
Narrow streets: GB is full of them, like Boston in the US, as city
streets were first laid-out when horse-carts ruled the city streets.
Also, GB should get rid of the numbering where the lowest numbers were
grabbed off by the earliers buildings, be they in the middle of the
block or not.
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'
Bonus points to GB for roundabouts. I figure that they saved me 15
minutes on my 18 mile commute from Coventry (Ciundon) to Birmingham
(Ladywood.)
Turns on red lights. Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly at
a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time. Having multiple sources for Electricity,
gas, and telephone are a bonus that the US doesn't know.. (I check
poces directly only once and the East Midlands full rate was exactly
the same as PG&E at the time.
"Moon" for the blind looks much easier to learn than Braille. Maybe
it's even easier to feel, too.
The NHS. Sure it's cursed. In GB, everything the sate does is cursed.
The basic US Style NHS is limited to a few in the States. It's known
as Tricare (Retired Miltary) and Medicare (for OAPs.)
It's nice to have your GP just a short stroll away. (I'm in good
shape, which makes a stroll dandy.)
I may as well mention in low / no fares for off-hours busses.
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.
I could mention that, in many places, you don't need screens to keep
the bugs out and the instant-hot showers.
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Fire away.
A question

Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?

AC
Jeff Lawrence
2009-07-31 09:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?
It's not just Americans. Here in NL they really do class coffee as
some sort of narcotic. They even have
lots of coffee shops that sell it. And it must be pretty strong stuff
because I've seen loads of people
stumble out of them completely out of their heads.
Cheers
Jeff
AC
2009-07-31 10:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Lawrence
Post by AC
Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?
It's not just Americans. Here in NL they really do class coffee as
some sort of narcotic. They even have
lots of coffee shops that sell it. And it must be pretty strong stuff
because I've seen loads of people
stumble out of them completely out of their heads.
Cheers
Jeff
LOL, nice one.

Tell me, are those coffee shops as they were a few years ago? I heard that
tobacco smoking bans had done terrible things to them.

AC
Jeff Lawrence
2009-07-31 10:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
Tell me, are those coffee shops as they were a few years ago? I heard that
tobacco smoking bans had done terrible things to them.
Well, the smoking ban only covers tobacco, not cannibis or dope.
You're perfectly OK smoking a spliff containing the latter 2
substances, just as long as it doesn't contain any tobacco. I don't
think the coffee shops have been affected too much really, they still
seem to be as busy as they've always been. Apparently there has been a
small rise in "anti-social behaviour" due to their customers being
forced to use harder stuff (in that they can't dilute it with tobacco)
but that's about it.
Cheers
Jeff
AC
2009-07-31 11:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Lawrence
Post by AC
Tell me, are those coffee shops as they were a few years ago? I heard that
tobacco smoking bans had done terrible things to them.
Well, the smoking ban only covers tobacco, not cannibis or dope.
You're perfectly OK smoking a spliff containing the latter 2
substances, just as long as it doesn't contain any tobacco. I don't
think the coffee shops have been affected too much really, they still
seem to be as busy as they've always been. Apparently there has been a
small rise in "anti-social behaviour" due to their customers being
forced to use harder stuff (in that they can't dilute it with tobacco)
but that's about it.
Cheers
Jeff
Phew!!!

Is that the locals misbehaving or (oh dear) British tourists?

I was there several years ago with a friend and often got the suspicious
eye. We made the effort to talk to the locals, mostly those who worked in
the shops, and they told us that the Brits often got a bit stupid. They
didn't mention other nationalities but as were were Brits we were talking in
that context.

AC
Jeff Lawrence
2009-07-31 11:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
Is that the locals misbehaving or (oh dear) British tourists?
I was there several years ago with a friend and often got the suspicious
eye. We made the effort to talk to the locals, mostly those who worked in
the shops, and they told us that the Brits often got a bit stupid. They
didn't mention other nationalities but as were were Brits we were talking in
that context.
The article I read about this didn't mention the nationalities of the
trouble-makers but it's usually the tourists (of all nationalities,
not just the Brits) that cause the problems as they are usually just
trying it out of curiosity and aren't used to doing such things. The
local customers are more used to it and can cope OK but you can still
get a few out of control Dutchies occasionally.
I've only ever been to a coffee shop twice, both because visiting
friends and relatives wanted to try it out. The 2nd time I went with
my sister and her husband. We only smoked pretty mild stuff but it was
still too much for my brother-in-law and he shortly afterwards he
puked up in the middle of the street watched by a load of people in a
nearby cafe, who broke into applause such was the magnitude of his
vomiting. A Dutch guy passing by on a bike made some comment about
"typical stupid Brits" and nearly got his head knocked off by my
sister. Ah, good times!
Cheers
Jeff
AC
2009-07-31 12:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Lawrence
Post by AC
Is that the locals misbehaving or (oh dear) British tourists?
I was there several years ago with a friend and often got the suspicious
eye. We made the effort to talk to the locals, mostly those who worked in
the shops, and they told us that the Brits often got a bit stupid. They
didn't mention other nationalities but as were were Brits we were talking in
that context.
The article I read about this didn't mention the nationalities of the
trouble-makers but it's usually the tourists (of all nationalities,
not just the Brits) that cause the problems as they are usually just
trying it out of curiosity and aren't used to doing such things. The
local customers are more used to it and can cope OK but you can still
get a few out of control Dutchies occasionally.
I've only ever been to a coffee shop twice, both because visiting
friends and relatives wanted to try it out. The 2nd time I went with
my sister and her husband. We only smoked pretty mild stuff but it was
still too much for my brother-in-law and he shortly afterwards he
puked up in the middle of the street watched by a load of people in a
nearby cafe, who broke into applause such was the magnitude of his
vomiting. A Dutch guy passing by on a bike made some comment about
"typical stupid Brits" and nearly got his head knocked off by my
sister. Ah, good times!
Cheers
Jeff
Just like being in the UK then!!!!!

Yeah, well I think one thing that endeared me and my pal to those in the
shops was that we told them we were green (not in the vom sense) and asked
for the weakest stuff they had, knowing that our fellow country men probably
did what you just described. So we took it easy.

Both of us were regular 'smokers' at the time, but some how it seemed rather
stupid to walk in to another 'manor' like we were some sort of experts.
Also, we had no idea how strong Dutch stuff was. Turned out that it wasn't
much stronger than anything we were used to, but why take the piss? Also, we
noted how easy it could be to fall in to a canal. Oh, and the police had
guns..........

I have to say, although we basically went to the tourist red light district,
it was a gorgeous place. I couldn't get my head around the fact that such
business was done in such a lovely looking historic place. Sure we went
there to smoke and bottle out of going with prostitutes, but even we 'lads'
ended up just walking round admiring the place. So much nicer than London.
And we went in February when the weather was not nice at all. But then it
was not packed out with people, which made the whole time much more
pleasant.

My other half wants to go there, so hopefully I'll be back.

Love the sound of your sister BTW :) (no, not like that)

AC
Ivan
2009-07-31 13:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Lawrence
Post by AC
Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?
It's not just Americans. Here in NL they really do class coffee as
some sort of narcotic. They even have
lots of coffee shops that sell it. And it must be pretty strong stuff
because I've seen loads of people
stumble out of them completely out of their heads.
Cheers
You're right, a couple of years ago I met up with a friend in a coffee
house, he introduced me to those tiny cups where the coffee has the
consistency of treacle, several cups later I was beginning to feel almost as
if I was on some kind of high and remember thinking 'Christ I can still
legally drive after drinking this stuff'.. at least I've yet to hear of
anyone losing their licence for being under the influence of coffee!
Martin
2009-07-31 13:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Jeff Lawrence
Post by AC
Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?
It's not just Americans. Here in NL they really do class coffee as
some sort of narcotic. They even have
lots of coffee shops that sell it. And it must be pretty strong stuff
because I've seen loads of people
stumble out of them completely out of their heads.
Cheers
You're right, a couple of years ago I met up with a friend in a coffee
house, he introduced me to those tiny cups where the coffee has the
consistency of treacle, several cups later I was beginning to feel almost as
if I was on some kind of high and remember thinking 'Christ I can still
legally drive after drinking this stuff'.. at least I've yet to hear of
anyone losing their licence for being under the influence of coffee!
Whoooossshhh!
--
Martin
AC
2009-07-31 16:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin
Post by Ivan
Post by Jeff Lawrence
Post by AC
Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?
It's not just Americans. Here in NL they really do class coffee as
some sort of narcotic. They even have
lots of coffee shops that sell it. And it must be pretty strong stuff
because I've seen loads of people
stumble out of them completely out of their heads.
Cheers
You're right, a couple of years ago I met up with a friend in a coffee
house, he introduced me to those tiny cups where the coffee has the
consistency of treacle, several cups later I was beginning to feel almost as
if I was on some kind of high and remember thinking 'Christ I can still
legally drive after drinking this stuff'.. at least I've yet to hear of
anyone losing their licence for being under the influence of coffee!
Whoooossshhh!
--
Martin
Yeah, but he's close to answering my actual question. Perhaps he simply
replied to the wrong post by mistake?

AC
Mortimer
2009-07-31 10:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Now in San Diego
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
Stop signs: The US has them like a helicopter was flying over a city
and they kept slipping out. GB has them where really, really needed,
relying on give-way dotted lines.
I never actually encountered a four-way stop junction, but I was afraid that
I might because the concept of a junction where priority is based on time
(the order in which you arrive) rather than position (priority to traffic on
your right in UK) seems idiotic.
Post by Now in San Diego
Of course, in GB, you have to know how to drive before you get your
license.
And you usually have to be able to manage a clutch and the selection of
gears - no nanny-boxes for us!
Post by Now in San Diego
Narrow streets: GB is full of them, like Boston in the US, as city
streets were first laid-out when horse-carts ruled the city streets.
Also, GB should get rid of the numbering where the lowest numbers were
grabbed off by the earliers buildings, be they in the middle of the
block or not.
I've not seen a street like that. One of the differences with the US house
numbering is that there are often gaps in the numbering between one house
and another, which is how you get house numbers in the thousands even for a
comparatively short street.
Post by Now in San Diego
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'
Bonus points to GB for roundabouts. I figure that they saved me 15
minutes on my 18 mile commute from Coventry (Ciundon) to Birmingham
(Ladywood.)
Very definitely. Roundabouts are a great invention, provided they are done
the British way (give way to traffic on the roundabout rather than to
traffic joining the roundabout as in the Netherlands).

I only encountered one roundabout, at one of the roads going onto Cape Cod.
Piece of piss: exactly like a UK one but give way to traffic from the left -
apply normal mirror-image rules. I went straight on, in the corredt lane,
indicated and came off. The American I was with was gobsmacked. "Do that
again. How did you do that?" And come to think of it, there *were* a lot of
bewildered American drivers dithering about...

Navigation was difficult in places because many out-of-town
single-carriageway side roads do not have any signs apart from road names.
And the road atlas of Massachusetts that I had was crap: it had separate
maps *all at different scales* for each "town", rather than having maps
arranged in a regular tiled manner and all at the same scale. If you are
about to go off the east of one map, you'd expect to turn to the following
page, but instead you have to see that the Ipswich map continues on the
Rowley map in a completely different part of the book. Mad!
Post by Now in San Diego
Turns on red lights. Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly at
a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?
Yes, I'd like to see some turn-on-red junctions here.
Post by Now in San Diego
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time. Having multiple sources for Electricity,
gas, and telephone are a bonus that the US doesn't know.. (I check
poces directly only once and the East Midlands full rate was exactly
the same as PG&E at the time.
"Moon" for the blind looks much easier to learn than Braille. Maybe
it's even easier to feel, too.
I've never heard of Moon. I assumed that Braille was used in all countries
that had alphabetic languages. Mind you, I believe that America has a
different sign language for the deaf to the UK - again I thought that sign
language was universal as it is a code for the object/concept rather than
the letters that make up the word (apart from very rare words).
Post by Now in San Diego
The NHS. Sure it's cursed. In GB, everything the sate does is cursed.
The basic US Style NHS is limited to a few in the States. It's known
as Tricare (Retired Miltary) and Medicare (for OAPs.)
It's nice to have your GP just a short stroll away. (I'm in good
shape, which makes a stroll dandy.)
I may as well mention in low / no fares for off-hours busses.
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.
The biggest difference with US TV is that they don't make any distinction
whatsoever between programme and advert - no "End of Part One" / "Part Two"
caption nor even a channel logo card as a "break bumper". Gets very
confusing when an advert looks like another scene in the film you're
watching.

And then there's the US preference for very "plasticky" colours and
low-contrast pictures on TV, especially on news programmes. Maybe it's a
technical NTSC versus PAL thing. At least I didn't see any evidence of
people's faces changing from magenta to green, as NTSC is notorious for.
Francis Burton
2009-07-31 10:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
And then there's the US preference for very "plasticky" colours and
low-contrast pictures on TV, especially on news programmes. Maybe it's a
technical NTSC versus PAL thing. At least I didn't see any evidence of
people's faces changing from magenta to green, as NTSC is notorious for.
That's why it is sometimes referred to as "Never Twice the Same Colour"
(and "No True Skin Colours").

Francis
Ivan
2009-07-31 13:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
The biggest difference with US TV is that they don't make any distinction
whatsoever between programme and advert - no "End of Part One" / "Part
Two" caption nor even a channel logo card as a "break bumper". Gets very
confusing when an advert looks like another scene in the film you're
watching.
I think you'll find that's recently beginning to creep in over here, where
it's hard to discern whether you are still watching the programme or an
advert.
Post by Mortimer
And then there's the US preference for very "plasticky" colours and
low-contrast pictures on TV, especially on news programmes. Maybe it's a
technical NTSC versus PAL thing. At least I didn't see any evidence of
people's faces changing from magenta to green, as NTSC is notorious for.
NTSC barely exists anymore in the States, it's been replaced by OTA digital
ATSC.
Mortimer
2009-07-31 14:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The biggest difference with US TV is that they don't make any distinction
whatsoever between programme and advert - no "End of Part One" / "Part
Two" caption nor even a channel logo card as a "break bumper". Gets very
confusing when an advert looks like another scene in the film you're
watching.
I think you'll find that's recently beginning to creep in over here, where
it's hard to discern whether you are still watching the programme or an
advert.
I agree. Some channels make it very difficult to tell. If I had my way, all
advertising would carry a big DOG saying "Advertisement" - the *only* DOG
that I would approve of!
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
And then there's the US preference for very "plasticky" colours and
low-contrast pictures on TV, especially on news programmes. Maybe it's a
technical NTSC versus PAL thing. At least I didn't see any evidence of
people's faces changing from magenta to green, as NTSC is notorious for.
NTSC barely exists anymore in the States, it's been replaced by OTA
digital ATSC.
But NTSC is probably still used for sending the signal from a set-top box
(DTTV or satellite) to the TV - unless you use RGB as opposed to composite,
S-Video or RF.

Going back to analogue TV days, I could tell a very big difference between
off-air NTSC broadcasts versus off-tape PAL recordings on my sister's TV
(she had a multi-standard TV and VCR), whereas there's no difference (apart
from noise and resolution) between off-air and recorded PAL. The colours
weren't more garish and the brightness and contrast weren't greater - but
the colours were less subtle like with a computer that is set to 256 instead
of 16 million colours (8 bit versus 24 bit).
Ivan
2009-07-31 14:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
The biggest difference with US TV is that they don't make any
distinction whatsoever between programme and advert - no "End of Part
One" / "Part Two" caption nor even a channel logo card as a "break
bumper". Gets very confusing when an advert looks like another scene in
the film you're watching.
I think you'll find that's recently beginning to creep in over here,
where it's hard to discern whether you are still watching the programme
or an advert.
I agree. Some channels make it very difficult to tell. If I had my way,
all advertising would carry a big DOG saying "Advertisement" - the *only*
DOG that I would approve of!
Post by Ivan
Post by Mortimer
And then there's the US preference for very "plasticky" colours and
low-contrast pictures on TV, especially on news programmes. Maybe it's a
technical NTSC versus PAL thing. At least I didn't see any evidence of
people's faces changing from magenta to green, as NTSC is notorious for.
NTSC barely exists anymore in the States, it's been replaced by OTA
digital ATSC.
But NTSC is probably still used for sending the signal from a set-top box
(DTTV or satellite) to the TV - unless you use RGB as opposed to
composite, S-Video or RF.
Going back to analogue TV days, I could tell a very big difference between
off-air NTSC broadcasts versus off-tape PAL recordings on my sister's TV
(she had a multi-standard TV and VCR), whereas there's no difference
(apart from noise and resolution) between off-air and recorded PAL. The
colours weren't more garish and the brightness and contrast weren't
greater - but the colours were less subtle like with a computer that is
set to 256 instead of 16 million colours (8 bit versus 24 bit).
|

I once owned a Fisher triple standard TV on which I used to receive NHK
(Japanese) and U.S. uplinks via PanAmSat, the picture quality was
surprisingly good, the hue control rarely required moving from its central
position (usually on F1 when the Ferraris could look a bit pink or magenta)
it also has to be remembered that we only narrowly avoided adopting 405 NTSC
as the UK standard.. Shudder :-)

|
JohnW
2009-07-31 17:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mortimer
Post by Now in San Diego
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
Stop signs: The US has them like a helicopter was flying over a city
and they kept slipping out. GB has them where really, really needed,
relying on give-way dotted lines.
I never actually encountered a four-way stop junction, but I was afraid
that I might because the concept of a junction where priority is based on
time (the order in which you arrive) rather than position (priority to
traffic on your right in UK) seems idiotic.
Four-Ways work absolutely fine on smaller roads and they don't need as much
space as a roundabout but when the road gets a bit busier than it was
designed to be it could be a problem and I assume that when that happens on
a regular basis they install lights. The problem for us Brits is that it
seems like an odd system. Once you realise that you're the only one that
thinks it's odd and everybody else is playing the game then it works out
fine. Better than spending 5 minutes waiting at lights with no cars on any
of the other roads!
Post by Mortimer
Post by Now in San Diego
Of course, in GB, you have to know how to drive before you get your
license.
And you usually have to be able to manage a clutch and the selection of
gears - no nanny-boxes for us!
Post by Now in San Diego
Narrow streets: GB is full of them, like Boston in the US, as city
streets were first laid-out when horse-carts ruled the city streets.
Also, GB should get rid of the numbering where the lowest numbers were
grabbed off by the earliers buildings, be they in the middle of the
block or not.
I've not seen a street like that. One of the differences with the US house
numbering is that there are often gaps in the numbering between one house
and another, which is how you get house numbers in the thousands even for
a comparatively short street.
That's because the numbering starts again at the start of each block.
Post by Mortimer
Post by Now in San Diego
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'
Bonus points to GB for roundabouts. I figure that they saved me 15
minutes on my 18 mile commute from Coventry (Ciundon) to Birmingham
(Ladywood.)
Very definitely. Roundabouts are a great invention, provided they are done
the British way (give way to traffic on the roundabout rather than to
traffic joining the roundabout as in the Netherlands).
I only encountered one roundabout, at one of the roads going onto Cape
Cod. Piece of piss: exactly like a UK one but give way to traffic from the
left - apply normal mirror-image rules. I went straight on, in the corredt
lane, indicated and came off. The American I was with was gobsmacked. "Do
that again. How did you do that?" And come to think of it, there *were* a
lot of bewildered American drivers dithering about...
We went round a few roundabouts (although they call them circles) in
Massachusetts and they all had the instructions on how to use them on signs
on the entry.
Post by Mortimer
Navigation was difficult in places because many out-of-town
single-carriageway side roads do not have any signs apart from road names.
And the road atlas of Massachusetts that I had was crap: it had separate
maps *all at different scales* for each "town", rather than having maps
arranged in a regular tiled manner and all at the same scale. If you are
about to go off the east of one map, you'd expect to turn to the following
page, but instead you have to see that the Ipswich map continues on the
Rowley map in a completely different part of the book. Mad!
Post by Now in San Diego
Turns on red lights. Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly at
a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?
Yes, I'd like to see some turn-on-red junctions here.
Agreed - although not all US states have adopted it. It is more necessary in
the US though because they have lights where we would have a roundabout and
they do have to wait a long time for the lights to change.
Post by Mortimer
Post by Now in San Diego
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time. Having multiple sources for Electricity,
gas, and telephone are a bonus that the US doesn't know.. (I check
poces directly only once and the East Midlands full rate was exactly
the same as PG&E at the time.
"Moon" for the blind looks much easier to learn than Braille. Maybe
it's even easier to feel, too.
I've never heard of Moon. I assumed that Braille was used in all countries
that had alphabetic languages. Mind you, I believe that America has a
different sign language for the deaf to the UK - again I thought that sign
language was universal as it is a code for the object/concept rather than
the letters that make up the word (apart from very rare words).
Post by Now in San Diego
The NHS. Sure it's cursed. In GB, everything the sate does is cursed.
The basic US Style NHS is limited to a few in the States. It's known
as Tricare (Retired Miltary) and Medicare (for OAPs.)
It's nice to have your GP just a short stroll away. (I'm in good
shape, which makes a stroll dandy.)
I may as well mention in low / no fares for off-hours busses.
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.
The biggest difference with US TV is that they don't make any distinction
whatsoever between programme and advert - no "End of Part One" / "Part
Two" caption nor even a channel logo card as a "break bumper". Gets very
confusing when an advert looks like another scene in the film you're
watching.
And then there's the US preference for very "plasticky" colours and
low-contrast pictures on TV, especially on news programmes. Maybe it's a
technical NTSC versus PAL thing. At least I didn't see any evidence of
people's faces changing from magenta to green, as NTSC is notorious for.
Huge
2009-07-31 11:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
A question
Coffee. Why do Americans seem to refer to it like its some sort of narcotic?
Because they're obsessed with intoxicants of all kinds.

Another difference; When an American asks you if you'd like a drink, they
don't usually mean alcohol.
--
http://hyperangry.blogspot.com/
[email me, if you must, at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
Basil Jet
2009-07-31 18:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Now in San Diego
Turns on red lights. Points to the Yanks here. Why wait needlessly
at a red light if you could turn, safely, into an empty lane?
Because we have pedestrians here. There are, however, numerous traffic
lights where an avoiding slip allows turning left on red.
Criclewood Lane NW2 -
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.563002,-0.197591&spn=0,359.999142&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=51.563002,-0.197591&panoid=yHfLZsEQ4oRK5dogtNth8A&cbp=12,95.64,,0,9.04

Furness Road NW10
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.53351,-0.23994&spn=0,359.972534&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.533392,-0.240139&panoid=PsWsl0e8FUk4wARCucdLpQ&cbp=12,201.5,,0,8.94

Both of these junctions confuse some people, who wait for the green light on
the adjacent lane.

This one on Old Brompton Road is less confusing...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.492476,-0.200254&spn=0,359.993134&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.488536,-0.192821&panoid=_QYRyQlzTIUTIej6-iurng&cbp=12,11.62,,0,7.25
ChelseaTractorMan
2009-07-31 10:20:47 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT), Now in San Diego
Post by Now in San Diego
Of course, narrow streets lead to the fun of 'mirror clicking.'
try Spain for truly narrow streets!
--
Mike. .. .
Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
ChelseaTractorMan
2009-07-31 10:22:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT), Now in San Diego
Post by Now in San Diego
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Haven't been but isn't US worse for fatalities and hasn't yet even
spotted phone/driving is bad? I think Scandinavia is the safest? Do we
want to pay the price though.
--
Mike. .. .
Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
pete
2009-07-31 11:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Now in San Diego
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
...
Post by Now in San Diego
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time.
I'd be surprised if that would work as well in a place with multiple
time-zones. When it's midnight in NY, people on the left hand side are
still watching TV - likewise when the east-coasters get up in the morning.
(And, do they really need to be incentivised to use more energy?)
Post by Now in San Diego
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.
Hmm, it sounds like you're advocating a TV tax/licence fee. I can't see
that going down well. Plus I think it's a really bad idea, here, too.
Post by Now in San Diego
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Err, guns. gun crime, gun culture, redneck survivalists, hunting, gun-clubs.
The ubiquity of weapons in houses in cars in shops.
Though I've always assumed that's why americans are so polite to other
people. You can't be sure that if you offend someone, somehow they aren't
going to shoot you.
Post by Now in San Diego
Fire away.
Oh, you've already covered that one :-)
Bod
2009-07-31 12:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by Now in San Diego
Here's the things I like that the other doesn't have, but should...or
has but shouldn't have.
...
Post by Now in San Diego
ECONOMY 7. Half price electricity (Midnight to 7 AM) so you can heat
house & water, wash the clothing etc for half-price - and cut down
polution aat the same time.
I'd be surprised if that would work as well in a place with multiple
time-zones. When it's midnight in NY, people on the left hand side are
still watching TV - likewise when the east-coasters get up in the morning.
(And, do they really need to be incentivised to use more energy?)
Post by Now in San Diego
TV: Well worth the price for the paper that makes it legal, if you
figure it on an hourly basis. I'm happy as a radio person, so found
myself having tto draw a chart to figure what I would be viewing/
listening /recording where and when for both Telly and wireless.
Hmm, it sounds like you're advocating a TV tax/licence fee. I can't see
that going down well. Plus I think it's a really bad idea, here, too.
Post by Now in San Diego
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Err, guns. gun crime, gun culture, redneck survivalists, hunting, gun-clubs.
The ubiquity of weapons in houses in cars in shops.
Though I've always assumed that's why americans are so polite to other
people. You can't be sure that if you offend someone, somehow they aren't
going to shoot you.
Post by Now in San Diego
Fire away.
Oh, you've already covered that one :-)
Anyone know the proportion of Americans who actually always carry a gun?

Bod
ChelseaTractorMan
2009-07-31 12:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
Anyone know the proportion of Americans who actually always carry a gun?
not sure that's legal everywhere (or anywhere?)
--
Mike. .. .
Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
Bod
2009-07-31 12:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChelseaTractorMan
Post by Bod
Anyone know the proportion of Americans who actually always carry a gun?
not sure that's legal everywhere (or anywhere?)
What about the "right to bear arms" thingy? does it not mean what it
says then?

Bod
ChelseaTractorMan
2009-07-31 12:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
What about the "right to bear arms" thingy? does it not mean what it
says then?
well, yes, you can wear a vest :-)

the right to bear arms is a hang up the US has. I think its more the
right to own a gun and keep it in the house so a burgler can shoot you
with it or shoot first because you may have one. But I dont know
details and it probably differs between states. I think "concealed" is
an issue. A rifle in your pick up may be something else. Theres an
outside chance an american who isnt a gun nut may clarify.
--
Mike. .. .
Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
Bod
2009-07-31 12:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChelseaTractorMan
Post by Bod
What about the "right to bear arms" thingy? does it not mean what it
says then?
well, yes, you can wear a vest :-)
the right to bear arms is a hang up the US has. I think its more the
right to own a gun and keep it in the house so a burgler can shoot you
with it or shoot first because you may have one. But I dont know
details and it probably differs between states. I think "concealed" is
an issue. A rifle in your pick up may be something else. Theres an
outside chance an american who isnt a gun nut may clarify.
On that theme,interestingly, years ago England had a similar law:The
English Bill of Rights 1689 is an important part of the English
constitution and mentions a right to bear arms.

Bod
Jethro
2009-07-31 13:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChelseaTractorMan
Post by Bod
What about the "right to bear arms" thingy? does it not mean what it
says then?
well, yes, you can wear a vest :-)
the right to bear arms is a hang up the US has. I think its more the
right to own a gun and keep it in the house so a burgler can shoot you
with it or shoot first because you may have one. But I dont know
details and it probably differs between states. I think "concealed" is
an issue. A rifle in your pick up may be something else. Theres an
outside chance an american who isnt a gun nut may clarify.
ISTR th wording is "In the interests of a well-kept militia, congress
shall pass no law that shall restrict the right of the citizen to bear
arms ..."

It was intended to ensure there was always a milita available if the
Evil Empire (er - the British) should attack on the sly ....
Halmyre
2009-07-31 14:31:58 UTC
Permalink
In article <1470bcf7-10e3-4889-8830-92f6ab0a4ac8
@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, ***@hotmail.com says...
Post by Jethro
Post by ChelseaTractorMan
Post by Bod
What about the "right to bear arms" thingy? does it not mean what it
says then?
well, yes, you can wear a vest :-)
the right to bear arms is a hang up the US has. I think its more the
right to own a gun and keep it in the house so a burgler can shoot you
with it or shoot first because you may have one. But I dont know
details and it probably differs between states. I think "concealed" is
an issue. A rifle in your pick up may be something else. Theres an
outside chance an american who isnt a gun nut may clarify.
ISTR th wording is "In the interests of a well-kept militia, congress
shall pass no law that shall restrict the right of the citizen to bear
arms ..."
It was intended to ensure there was always a milita available if the
Evil Empire (er - the British) should attack on the sly ....
And it's of no more relevant today than the old English law about compulsory
archery practice.
--
Halmyre

The more you know the less the better.
Huge
2009-07-31 12:02:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by Now in San Diego
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Err, guns. gun crime, gun culture, redneck survivalists, hunting, gun-clubs.
The ubiquity of weapons in houses in cars in shops.
Is this what you've seen, or what you've read about in the gutter
press? You see, in over 30 years of visits to the USA, I've never
seen any gun crime. Yes, I've seen rather more guns than here, but not
extraordinarily so. And there may well be ubiquitious gun ownership, but
you can hardly tell by looking at people; even in states where open
carry is legal (like PA, where I mostly go), I've never seen anyone
other a cop carrying openly.
--
http://hyperangry.blogspot.com/
[email me, if you must, at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
pete
2009-07-31 13:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by pete
Post by Now in San Diego
Any other differences travellers have noted?
Err, guns. gun crime, gun culture, redneck survivalists, hunting, gun-clubs.
The ubiquity of weapons in houses in cars in shops.
Is this what you've seen, or what you've read about in the gutter
press? You see, in over 30 years of visits to the USA, I've never
seen any gun crime. Yes, I've seen rather more guns than here, but not
extraordinarily so. And there may well be ubiquitious gun ownership, but
you can hardly tell by looking at people; even in states where open
carry is legal (like PA, where I mostly go), I've never seen anyone
other a cop carrying openly.
Aside from the gun _crime_ which is more concentrated than in the UK
(and also more lenient on what is classed as a "crime") my own personal
experience is that guns are far more part of everyday living than they
ever were in Britian. Apart from gun shops and the ease of purchase,
and the normality of a weekend hunting trip where the number of rifles
seems to be a sytatus symbol, a lot of my views on this topic came from
one work trip. I spent a weekend with some work colleagues at their
beach house in South Carolina. The first evening, the colleague said
something like "hey come take a look at this" I wasn't quite sure what
he was opening up about!! It turned out to be his weapons collection:
some 9mm and a couple of rifles. We spent an evening disassembling them
cleaning them and generally talking about guns. I declined the offer to
"go down to the range", but the impression I returned with was that this
guy and his wife were both perfectly normal, gun-toting americans. For
whom having more weapons than people in their weekend retreat (and more
at their main residence) was neither exceptional nor a concern.
Compare this to the UK experience. Here One friend of a friend who was
a member of a shooting club had _one_ pistol in his house as that was
all his permit would allow. He also made his own ammo, as bought stuff
didn't have the accuracy for competitions. Even that (this was the 80's)
is utterly verboten now.
unknown
2009-07-31 14:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Aside from the gun _crime_ which is more concentrated than in the UK
(and also more lenient on what is classed as a "crime") my own personal
experience is that guns are far more part of everyday living than they
ever were in Britian.
It depends where you lived. Guns inside citys in the UK have been a
rarity for a long time - but read some Sherlock Holmes stories and
similar books from that era and you realise that once it was normal in
the UK to own and even to carry a gun in public. And not it's not
fictionalised bullshit. Once the UK had the same policy as reasonable
countries. It's not carrying a gun that's a crime, it's pointing it at
someone with an intent to wound or kill that is a crime.

Even in the 1960s, in rural areas, possession of pistols, rifles and
shotguns was common. I was taught to shoot responsibly as a child, by my
father and by the local police sergeant who ran a shooting club at the
football ground. It was also considered essential to learn how to shoot
at school (because of course every grammar-school educated child was
going to end up as an officer in the armed forces).

The current modern British hysteria about such things is simply the end
game in a long process of erosion of civil liberties and a policy of
attempting to make out that gun owners are all psychotic killers.
Froot Bat
2009-07-31 17:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
The current modern British hysteria about such things is simply the end
game in a long process of erosion of civil liberties
Is it fuck. There is no 'current hysteria' about guns and there is no
demand from anyone in the UK for the right to own guns, other than a
handful of insignificant weaklings like you who need to compensate for
having small penises and want to kill defenceless people/animals to
feel relevant.
Post by unknown
and a policy of
attempting to make out that gun owners are all psychotic killers.
And I guess the laws against, say, rape are all about making out
everyone is a rapist?
unknown
2009-07-31 18:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
The current modern British hysteria about such things is simply the end
game in a long process of erosion of civil liberties
Is it fuck. There is no 'current hysteria' about guns and there is no
demand from anyone in the UK for the right to own guns, other than a
handful of insignificant weaklings like you who need to compensate for
having small penises and want to kill defenceless people/animals to
feel relevant.
Post by unknown
and a policy of
attempting to make out that gun owners are all psychotic killers.
And I guess the laws against, say, rape are all about making out
everyone is a rapist?
Thanks for a demonstration of British hysteria about guns, equating gun
ownership with rape, gun owners as people who are "insignificant
weaklings" with "small penises" who want to "kill defenceless people" is
a classic portrayal of that hysteria.

Meanwhile, in other countries, people are permitted to enjoy a hobby
that is rewarding. Why not try it some time? Oh that's right, we're in
England, you can't.
Froot Bat
2009-07-31 18:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
and a policy of
attempting to make out that gun owners are all psychotic killers.
And I guess the laws against, say, rape are all about making out
everyone is a rapist?
Thanks for a demonstration of British hysteria about guns, equating gun
ownership with rape,
Okay, pick another crime you are happy with.
Post by unknown
gun owners as people who are "insignificant
weaklings" with "small penises" who want to "kill defenceless people" is
a classic portrayal of that hysteria.
The hysterical people are gun nuts who get so angry about their
totally imagined 'right' to bear arms being 'infringed'.
Post by unknown
Meanwhile, in other countries, people are permitted to enjoy a hobby
that is rewarding.
There are a lot of things people can do in other countries that we
can't do here, and vice versa. If that was at all relevant every
country would have the same laws.
Post by unknown
Why not try it some time? Oh that's right, we're in England, you can't.
So find a country that fits your beliefs better.
Brimstone
2009-07-31 18:56:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
and a policy of
attempting to make out that gun owners are all psychotic killers.
And I guess the laws against, say, rape are all about making out
everyone is a rapist?
Thanks for a demonstration of British hysteria about guns, equating
gun ownership with rape,
Okay, pick another crime you are happy with.
Post by unknown
gun owners as people who are "insignificant
weaklings" with "small penises" who want to "kill defenceless
people" is a classic portrayal of that hysteria.
The hysterical people are gun nuts who get so angry about their
totally imagined 'right' to bear arms being 'infringed'.
Post by unknown
Meanwhile, in other countries, people are permitted to enjoy a hobby
that is rewarding.
There are a lot of things people can do in other countries that we
can't do here, and vice versa. If that was at all relevant every
country would have the same laws.
Post by unknown
Why not try it some time? Oh that's right, we're in England, you can't.
So find a country that fits your beliefs better.
One day you might acquire some beliefs, at the moment you're merely
swallowing the Daily Wail's hysteria. I very much doubt you've ever handled
a firearm, if you had you'd not be so petrified of them.
Froot Bat
2009-07-31 19:37:42 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:56:19 +0100, "Brimstone"
Post by Brimstone
Post by Froot Bat
So find a country that fits your beliefs better.
One day you might acquire some beliefs,
I already have beliefs. For example I believe gun nuts (ie, anyone who
wants a gun) should not be allowed to possess or use guns.
Post by Brimstone
at the moment you're merely swallowing the Daily Wail's hysteria.
The only people wailing hysterically are a handful of noisy gun nuts
like you, because your toys have been taken away from you.
Post by Brimstone
I very much doubt you've ever handled a firearm
Why would I want to? There are for more interesting things I can
handle - on myself and other people - to get my jollies.
Post by Brimstone
if you had you'd not be so petrified of them.
Well you would think I'm petrified of them, because that's why you,
like all gun nut cowards, are into guns, because the only way you can
feel significant is by waving a gun around thinking you're a bad ass.
Brimstone
2009-07-31 19:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Froot Bat
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:56:19 +0100, "Brimstone"
Post by Brimstone
Post by Froot Bat
So find a country that fits your beliefs better.
One day you might acquire some beliefs,
I already have beliefs.
Based on what?
Post by Froot Bat
For example I believe gun nuts (ie, anyone who
wants a gun) should not be allowed to possess or use guns.
Why not?
Post by Froot Bat
Post by Brimstone
at the moment you're merely swallowing the Daily Wail's hysteria.
The only people wailing hysterically are a handful of noisy gun nuts
like you, because your toys have been taken away from you.
The only time I've used firearms was when I was in the Army. So that's you
wrong again.
Post by Froot Bat
Post by Brimstone
I very much doubt you've ever handled a firearm
Why would I want to? There are for more interesting things I can
handle - on myself and other people - to get my jollies.
Did you condemn sex before you tried it (I'm assuming that your old enough
to have done so)?
Post by Froot Bat
Post by Brimstone
if you had you'd not be so petrified of them.
Well you would think I'm petrified of them, because that's why you,
like all gun nut cowards, are into guns, because the only way you can
feel significant is by waving a gun around thinking you're a bad ass.
Wrong again, see above.

Your hysteria is still showing.
Bod
2009-07-31 20:03:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brimstone
Post by Froot Bat
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:56:19 +0100, "Brimstone"
Post by Brimstone
Post by Froot Bat
So find a country that fits your beliefs better.
One day you might acquire some beliefs,
I already have beliefs.
Based on what?
Post by Froot Bat
For example I believe gun nuts (ie, anyone who
wants a gun) should not be allowed to possess or use guns.
Why not?
Post by Froot Bat
Post by Brimstone
at the moment you're merely swallowing the Daily Wail's hysteria.
The only people wailing hysterically are a handful of noisy gun nuts
like you, because your toys have been taken away from you.
The only time I've used firearms was when I was in the Army. So that's you
wrong again.
Post by Froot Bat
Post by Brimstone
I very much doubt you've ever handled a firearm
Why would I want to? There are for more interesting things I can
handle - on myself and other people - to get my jollies.
Did you condemn sex before you tried it (I'm assuming that your old enough
to have done so)?
Post by Froot Bat
Post by Brimstone
if you had you'd not be so petrified of them.
Well you would think I'm petrified of them, because that's why you,
like all gun nut cowards, are into guns, because the only way you can
feel significant is by waving a gun around thinking you're a bad ass.
Wrong again, see above.
Your hysteria is still showing.
Insecure or paranoid people feel the need to carry a weapon.

Bod
Brimstone
2009-07-31 20:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
Insecure or paranoid people feel the need to carry a weapon.
What has that got to do with having the right to carry a weapon (bearing in
mind that one's hands are weapons)?
Bod
2009-07-31 20:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brimstone
Post by Bod
Insecure or paranoid people feel the need to carry a weapon.
What has that got to do with having the right to carry a weapon (bearing in
mind that one's hands are weapons)?
It's not the"right to carry a weapon",I'm talking about the'need' for
some people to carry a weapon .
I do not feel the 'need' to carry a weapon,as do most people who are
confident without one.
I think it's a given that everybody has the right to possess limbs.

Bod
unknown
2009-07-31 20:50:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bod
Insecure or paranoid people feel the need to carry a weapon.
Thanks, once more, for the demonstration that you're one of the dumbest
fucks currently posting to Usenet.
unknown
2009-07-31 20:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Froot Bat
Well you would think I'm petrified of them, because that's why you,
like all gun nut cowards, are into guns, because the only way you can
feel significant is by waving a gun around thinking you're a bad ass.
You've mentioned that several times now. I've never felt "significant"
as a result of using a gun. Guns are never "waved around", the first
lesson one learns is discipline and then a disciplined attitude to
handling guns. It's a very good discipline and one more young people
could do with learning.

Your belief seems to be that if someone put a gun in *your* hands you
would turn into a homicidal maniac. I'm content to let you judge
yourself in this instance.
unknown
2009-07-31 20:14:38 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
Thanks for a demonstration of British hysteria about guns, equating gun
ownership with rape,
Okay, pick another crime you are happy with.
Owning a gun is not a crime. Thanks once more for demonstrating that the
knee-jerk reaction of the British pubic to guns is hysteria. Something
that you denied.
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
gun owners as people who are "insignificant weaklings" with "small
penises" who want to "kill defenceless people" is a classic portrayal of
that hysteria.
The hysterical people are gun nuts who get so angry about their
totally imagined 'right' to bear arms being 'infringed'.
The only one angry here is you.
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
Meanwhile, in other countries, people are permitted to enjoy a hobby
that is rewarding.
There are a lot of things people can do in other countries that we
can't do here, and vice versa. If that was at all relevant every
country would have the same laws.
The UK has a uniquely stupid attitude to gun control and gun law.
Hysterics like you want to prosecute the object, not the intent. This
leads to the current insanity where one can be arrested for (say)
carrying a set of kitchen knives in the street and where schoolboys are
no longer permitted to own pen knives.
Post by Froot Bat
Post by unknown
Why not try it some time? Oh that's right, we're in England, you can't.
So find a country that fits your beliefs better.
I have done, thanks for asking.

You can go back to having a hissy fit because someone said "gun" now.
Froot Bat
2009-07-31 17:33:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:47:48 -0700 (PDT), Now in San Diego
Post by Now in San Diego
I gave a talk to a group the other day on places where the UK and the
US could learn something from one-another. The problem is that we are
both so sure that we are best, that we never listen.
You cannot compare a real country that has existed for many centuries
with an artificial breakaway settlement of that country that is less
than 250 years old.

We are now coming to the end of the brief period of American relevance
that began after WWII; by the middle of this century the settlement
known as the USA, as we know it now, will be gone.
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